Meta: On Villains

[kellifer]

I have a special place in my heart for the bad guy. The evil genius or the diabolical master mind was always more infinitely interesting to me than the squeaky clean hero. I enjoy the anti-hero to an extent (if done well) and only really like the good guy if he's also flawed, makes mistakes.

But the bad guy has to be redeemable. He has to have a certain something that speaks to me, that makes him charming/sympathetic/just too plain fun to hate. He has to find glee in his mallice or I just don't... I can't connect.

On that, here are some...

Top Ten All Time Bad Guys and Why

10. Replicators - SG1/Atlantis

These guys worked as a good one-shot alien. I just don't think they do as a ongoing arc bad guy. I don't find the human-form replicators all that compelling. The sheer numbers of them as little bots worked much better but also when a bad guy is unbeatable and you know you're screwed as soon as one appears... it just doesn't work for me. A bad guy you also can only fight through the power of coding??

9. The Wraith - Atlantis
There's a lot that's awesome about the Wraith. If they stopped being just so damn goofy for a minute they would really be menacing. I've always loved the idea of an organic ship and the old tried and true threat because of overwhelming numbers is employed here. The henchmen suffer from the whole storm trooper problem, they're basically just canon fodder. It just feels like in later episodes of Atlantis they've become more of an annoyance than a threat to the 'lanteans.

7. T1000 - Terminator
He's doesn't stop, you can't hurt him and he absolutely doesn't care about anything. He could suffer from the replicator problem but he doesn't for me and I can't explain it. Possibly because of the sheer relentlessness. You can't catch your breath because he certainly doesn't. He just keeps coming and that I find truly frightening.

6. Zombies
I love them in all their forms. Mostly when there's a lot of them and they are fast. The shamblers will get you only because there are so many of them but what's truly frightening is yes, it would spread that quickly because no one would really believe what was going on.

5. Zim - Invader Zim
Okay, so he's not going to take over the world any time soon but he tries so hard. The very fact that he fails despite not really being thwarted in any real way is adorable. And you gotta love Gir.

4. Angelus - Angel
Mostly because the potential is always there and he's much more charasmatic as the bad guy. The evil lurking just underneath the skin of a hero is infinitely fascinating and the very fact that happiness will bring forth the monster is just wonderful.

4. Mayor Wilkins - BTVS
I loved Mayor Wilkins. Mostly because he had that certain glee about what he was doing. However, he also had the capacity to care about things other than himself. He took in Faith when she's been abandoned by those that should have cared for her and even though he used her to do his dirty work, he was also genuinely attached. Also, he hated germs. Ha!

3. Faith - BTVS
Okay, she was only a bad guy for a little while but what was great was that you got to see Faith's fall. You understood the choices she made because you saw her reach out and be rebuffed. The first person to take the time to actually listen to her and treat her like she was important was a bad guy.

2. The Yellow Eyed Demon - SPN
As a malevolent presence in the shadows, poisoning everything in the Winchester's lives with just a single act and the fact that he was there, he really worked for me. Possessing Papa Winchester upped the creepiness and he became the ultimate bad guy.

He lost something with familiarity. I found him less threatening as we hurtled towards the season finale of S2. Maybe I just don't like seeing my bad guys coming?

1. Alien - Alien
I just... love them. In the first movie you couldn't tell what they looked like because it was always in the shadows. In the second it was blurred by sheer numbers. In the third the speed and the darkness. Face huggers are awesome. That scene where Ripley and the little girl (mental blank!!) are locked in the science lab with two on the loose... whew! They don't kill you straight away. You get cocooned and impregnated and then have to wait around until something chews its way out of your chest.

Awesome.

Edited to add: Ummm... haha... you may notice there is no number eight. Errr... a bad guy stole it!

Comments

[lark_ascends]

Angelus was infinitely more charismatic and interesting then Angel, I would completely agree. Oh, and you've got to love bad guys that seem so normal.

Mine would have to include most of the cast of The Pretender. Because, wow, awesomely conflicted.

[springwoof.livejournal.com]

I adored Mayor Wilkins. He was the awesomest bad guy because he had the capacity to care about others. I believe he truly loved Faith and thought of her as a daughter. It made his choices to be evil even more ghastly in contrast. And the glee! The glee really made the character pop for me. His glee and quirkiness made me sit up and notice whenever he was onscreen....

this is a cool list and a great idea!

[sixpacschic.livejournal.com]

The little girl in Aliens is Newt. Awesome list by the way.

[droolfangrrl.livejournal.com]

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE

You have to read a book called _soon i will be invincible_

http://www.sooniwillbeinvincible.com/

one of the POV characters is a super villain.

[sinanju.livejournal.com]

I second this recommendation. Soon I Will Be Invincible is a great book, if you like superheros and supervillains.

[snippy]

And If I Were an Evil Overlord, ed. Marvin Greenberg and Russel Davis, which is a collection of short stories. My spoiler-free review here.

[strangevisitor7.livejournal.com]

Great list. I do agree that the Wraith have almost become an after thought - wonder why?

I would have added the BORG from Star Trek - that hive mentallity and the overwhelming numbers. Similar to the replicators, but add to it some people you know who've been converted and it ups the ante. But like you said when they become unbeatable or too familiar they lose some of their menace.

No #8 *hee* - someone is protecting thieir villinous identity.

[abyssinia4077.livejournal.com]

Great list - and I second the other commenter who would add the Borg to the list (maybe they stole number 8?)

I've always thought that while the Wraith themselves are creepy in some ways, their story-telling power is less with the Wraith directly and more in exploring how societies adapting to living under the threat of the Wraith. We saw the Genii build underground bunkers, the H-something-or-other devote their society to developing a medicinal antidote, the people with the penal colony at the gate, the ones with the moon refuge. I just think *that* is cool - all these different ways to deal with an more technologically advanced alien presence for whom you are FOOD.

[jaydeyn-sitari.livejournal.com]

I've loved the gleeful bad guy since I was five. I blame that guy *points to icon*. (The Master from Doctor Who. ... also the Rani, for she was made of awesome and snark and evil!)

I've been quite fond of Ba'al and Sylar (Heroes) of late... um... I have a god-he-squicks-me-out-severely/ but sooo fascinating to watch thing with T-Bag from Prison Break. And I'm loving Alex Mahone and not just because he's William Fitchner in real life and that gets a guaranteed ♥ from me.

There's a definite redeemable feature that I like to my bad guys... you know it may be there, but damn if you don't like 'em as they are! A bit of flair and I'm a goner.

Zombies though? I HATE with a fiery passion. They are my least favourite supernatural thing ever. *shudders* Though I still watch zombie movies occasionally - does that make me a masochist?

Big ticks on T-1000, Mayor Wilkins and Faith! And yeah, what the heck has happened with the Wraith? I'm not impressed with their omnipresent-oh-gods-we're-all-gonna DIE thing being subsumed by the replicators. Borg-by-proxy doesn't interest me... us as food? That interests me...

Oh... not that I dislike the Borg, quite the opposite.

:)
Jaydeyn

[manderkitty.livejournal.com]

oh, God. T-Bag kills me. He'll go from vaguely creepy but still kinda charming right into sexual-assault-killer-mode. I find myself liking him despite what he is. And Sylar's pretty.

[jaydeyn-sitari.livejournal.com]

And he'll do it in a split second with just a small head tilt or a glint in the eye... *shudders* That's scary-good acting right there. Such a fascinating character to watch...

And yeah, Sylar = pretty. And I think he'll be even more so this season from the preview at the end of ep2 (which is where I'm up to!).

:)
Jaydeyn

[pepper-field.livejournal.com]

Ooh, yes, bad guys. Nice. I loved Mayor Wilkins, too. He corrected his henchmen's grammar, drank milk, oh, and was becoming an evil snake demon. And yes, the glee!

I have to tell you about the most effective typing programme I ever used. No, stay with me. It was called The Typing Of The Dead. Your character is being chased by zombies, a la Resident Evil, and you have to type really fast and/or accurately, or they bite chunks out of you. Better typing through fear of zombies. I've never learnt so quickly. :D

(And I would add the Goa'uld, myself - terrible dress sense, glowing eyes, parasitical snake real form, sheer uselessness at tactical planning... Oh, and the Master, from Doctor Who. And Doctor Evil. And...)

[miera-c.livejournal.com]

Wilkins and The Master were my two favorite bad guys on Buffy (I mean the Master had one of the best lines ever in the middle of an earthquake in "Prophecy Girl": "We are in the final days, glory glory! ... What do you think? 5.1?"

The Replicators were interesting on SG-1 at the start. When they brought them back on SGA I was so irritated. The whole idea of them had been done to death and then exhumed, vivisected and buried again on SG-1, and there's this whole creepy alien species eating people in the Pegasus Galaxy. Why couldn't we focus on them instead of retreading something that had stopped being interesting on SG-1 years ago? Bah.

A bad guy you also can only fight through the power of coding??

(Someone asked on Mallozzi's blog, "McKay can rewrite the base code for the Replicators but he can't find the directions for how to build a ZPM?" Mallozzi got really pissy about it, but I laughed.)

[sinanju.livejournal.com]

I hated--and still hate--the replicators as bad guys. For one thing, real replicators should be both vastly smaller (i.e., nano-tech sized) units that assemble themselves into macro-scale threats. Not tinker-toy sized robots. For another, for ultra-tech threats, they never seemed to come up with a better attack than "run forward and leap on things". Why the heck didn't they ever resort to projectile weapons like our heroes did?

Oh yeah--because THEY WOULD HAVE WON.

Also, the replicators were an all-or-nothing threat, which is always a bad idea in a villain. EITHER you utterly annihilate every single replicator on the planet OR they turn earth into gray goo. There's no middle ground. So OF COURSE our heroes will win.

The Goa'uld, by contrast, were capable of occasional victories--because a single win here and there didn't mean the end of human civilization.

As for the Wraith? I like my space vampires to be as god intended: looking like a naked and luscious Matilda May in LIFE FORCE....

[saldemonium.livejournal.com]

*grins* Facehuggers are awesome, indeed! I have a stuffed one. My children are terrified of it. ;)

[crayonbreakygal.livejournal.com]

I think Angelus will always be my favorite, hands down. Borg are good villains too. Replicators are kinda dull. I did like RepliCarter though. She was an interesting villain, especially when she's messing with Daniel. Those alien creatures from Alien? Ick, with a double side of ick. I think that movie gave me nightmares.

I think since Sheppard started calling Wraith by names like Steve and Bob, that just made them goofy. Of course, they almost did suck the life out of him.

[purenightshade.livejournal.com]

Totally with you on the replicators. I was really mad when they made the crossover from SG-1 to Atlantis and wtih completely different origins. In SG-1, they were created by that robot/android girl. In Atlantis that were as I recall made by the Ancients. WTF?

The Wraith. Yes, numbers good. go for quantity over quality. But yes, kinda goofy with red shirt/stormtrooper syndrome. The Queens are kickass though. Michael was cool as was Steve, but later in the show they started to kinda suck.

OMG Zim! Let's sing the Doom song! I adored Gir. If it weren't for Dib, we'd all be slaves to the Irkans. Much as it irks me that Dib is the 'hero' in this case. He's such a useless wanker. Gaz and Gir made the show so much more interesting. Can you imagine if they teamed up to take over Earth?

Angelus/Mayor Wilkins/Faith.
Lordy, did I love those episodes. Wilkins is just so...happy! He was evil to his core, but so perky and likable. Evil!Angelus is beyond badass. He defines badass. Spike has nothing on him despite the two Slayer kills.
Faith. How can you not love Faith. Bad girl turned less bad girl, turned really bad girl, turned prison girl, turned sort of hero. Now _that_ is a dynamic character with more edges and flaws that most Buffyverse characters had.

YED. Yup. Most badass villain of the Supernatural 'verse. Makes me wonder how they're going to top that one because damn! For someone we saw so little of, he did so much bad. We didn't even really see 'him' until near the end of Season 1.

[jaydeyn-sitari.livejournal.com]

Just talking about this today with a friend:

Totally with you on the replicators. I was really mad when they made the crossover from SG-1 to Atlantis and wtih completely different origins. In SG-1, they were created by that robot/android girl. In Atlantis that were as I recall made by the Ancients. WTF?

If you figure it out, let us know, yeah? :( Is it just a big gaping verse-plot-hole or are we supposed to not have been paying attention or what?

:(
Jaydeyn

[purenightshade.livejournal.com]

Will do. I want to go back and watch some of my SG-1 eps, so I'll pay special attention to those ones.

[mellyna.livejournal.com]

Great list. Totally agree with the points you made on each. I would have to add Magneto (X-Men) to the list though. I kinda always found myself cheering for him *shrugs* He was brilliant and charismatic.